4 outs on the turn against a third-pot bet: call or fold

Here is why a call fails on the turn: a third-pot bet needs 20.00% equity, and 4 outs supply only 8.70%.

Verdict

Fold

4 outs, turn, third-pot bet

  • Chance to hit by the riverone card to come8.70%
  • Equity the call needs$33.33 into a pot of $166.6720.00%
  • Margin over the priceyour chance minus the price-11.30 points

Comparing the draw with the bet

With 4 outs on the turn you hit 8.70% by the river, and a third-pot bet asks for 20.00%. A 11.30-point shortfall makes this a clear fold.

For a gutshot straight draw, 4 outs is the number to use, and one card hits 8.70% of the time out of 46 unseen.

The arithmetic of this call

  • Starting pot$100
  • Your opponent bets$33.33
  • Cost to call$33.33
  • Pot after your call$166.67
  • You can win on a hit$133.33
  • Net loss when you miss$33.33
  • Your chance to hit8.70%
  • Calling is worth, on average-$18.84
  • Price of the call20.00%
  • Your chance minus the price, unrounded-11.3043 points
  • Outs that exactly reach the price9.20 outs
  • Outs to spare, exactly-5.20 outs

Price it in dollars, with no later bets: win the whole pot on a hit, lose the call on a miss. That averages $11.59 in and $30.43 out, so calling loses $18.84 on average at -0.565 per dollar called.

Put as odds, the draw is 10.5 : 1 against, and the pot offers 4 : 1 for the call.

Counting the pot without your call makes the price look like 25.00%, when the real price is 20.00%. On that mistaken price the margin would read -16.3043 points; on 33.33%, the bet over the starting pot, it would read -24.6377 points.

What implied odds would have to do

Your chance is 8.70%, so a hit has to pay $383.33 in all, or $216.67 more than the pot you can see. That extra is 6.50 times what you call.

Outs are the other lever. At 10 outs you reach 21.74% by the river, enough for a third-pot bet, and you are 6 outs away.

Price of a third-pot call with future winnings added, 4 outs on the turn
Future winningsPrice with themYour chance minus priceValue of the callCall?
$020.00%-11.30 points-$18.84Fold
$5015.38%-6.69 points-$14.49Fold
$10012.50%-3.80 points-$10.14Fold
$2508.00%+0.70 points+$2.90Call
$5005.00%+3.70 points+$24.64Call

How the turn changes the draw

You have lost a card to come. From the flop 4 outs reach 16.47%; from the turn they reach 8.70%, 7.77 points less. Against 20.00% the flop version is a fold.

4 outs against a third-pot bet, flop and turn
StreetChance by the riverMargin over priceValue of the callVerdict
Flop, two cards to come16.47%-3.5338 points-$5.89Fold
Turn, one card to come8.70%-11.3043 points-$18.84Fold

One out more or less

A few outs either way, against a third-pot bet that needs 20.00%. The chance climbs about 2.17 points with each extra out.

Outs 2 to 6 on the turn against a third-pot bet
OutsBy the riverMarginVerdict
2 outs4.35%-15.65 pointsFold
3 outs6.52%-13.48 pointsFold
4 outs, this page8.70%-11.30 pointsFold
5 outs10.87%-9.13 pointsFold
6 outs13.04%-6.96 pointsFold

Bigger and smaller bets

How much does bet size matter? The price climbs from 16.67% to 44.44% across the list, while 4 outs stay at 8.70%.

4 outs stop paying at 0.11 times the pot ($10.53 on a $100 pot), below the smallest size listed. The call fails at all 12 bet sizes.

4 outs on the turn against every bet size
Bet sizeEquity neededMarginVerdict
quarter-pot16.67%-7.97 pointsFold
third-pot, this page20.00%-11.30 pointsFold
two-fifths-pot22.22%-13.53 pointsFold
half-pot25.00%-16.30 pointsFold
two-thirds-pot28.57%-19.88 pointsFold
three-quarter-pot30.00%-21.30 pointsFold
pot-size33.33%-24.64 pointsFold
1.25x-pot35.71%-27.02 pointsFold
1.5x-pot37.50%-28.80 pointsFold
2x-pot40.00%-31.30 pointsFold
3x-pot42.86%-34.16 pointsFold
4x-pot44.44%-35.75 pointsFold

How this is computed

Everything is computed from the closed form. The river chance is 4 outs over 46 unseen cards, 8.70%.

These figures describe a clean spot. You pay the whole bet, which costs $33.33 of a $166.67 pot (20.00%), collect the whole pot on a hit, meet no more bets, and draw from 46 equally likely cards, with no adjustment for an opponent's hand.

Computed from the closed form by the GeorgeLiPoker math library.

Updated

Questions

What does the math say about calling a bet of a third of the pot with 4 outs on the turn?

Reduce the question to a comparison of two numbers: 8.70% to hit and 20.00% to break even. The first minus the second is -11.30 points, which makes this a fold, and the call averages -$18.84 on a $100 pot if no more betting follows.

How many outs make a call correct against a third of the pot on the turn?

Against 20.00%, the first count that works on the turn is 10, at 21.74%. At 9 the chance is 19.57%, too low. Compared with that threshold, your 4 outs are 6 below.

Which hit chance fits a third-pot bet on the turn?

They are one number here. With a single card to come, 8.70% is both the next-card chance and the by-the-river chance, and it gives a fold against 20.00%, a margin of -11.30 points.

Check your own hands against the numbers

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