8 outs on the flop against a three-quarter-pot bet: call or fold

8 outs against a three-quarter-pot bet on the flop clear the price. You need 30.00% and you have 31.45%.

Verdict

Call

8 outs, flop, three-quarter-pot bet

  • Chance to hit by the rivertwo cards to come31.45%
  • Equity the call needs$75 into a pot of $25030.00%
  • Margin over the priceyour chance minus the price+1.45 points

The call in numbers

The call just clears the price. You hold 31.45%, the three-quarter-pot bet asks for 30.00%, and the margin is 1.45 points.

8 outs is the standard count for an open-ended straight draw. Of the 47 unseen cards on the flop, 8 complete it, which is 17.02% on the very next card.

The $100 pot example

  • Pot before the bet$100
  • The bet$75
  • Your call$75
  • Pot with your call in$250
  • Gain on a hit$175
  • Net loss when you miss$75
  • Your chance to hit31.45%
  • Expected value of a call+$3.63
  • Equity needed to break even30.00%
  • Margin, to four decimals+1.4524 points
  • Fractional outs at the price7.59 outs
  • Outs above the price+0.41 outs

With no more betting, the whole pot won on a hit and the call lost on a miss, the call gains $3.63 on average. The hit side averages $55.04, the miss side $51.41, and each dollar called returns +0.048.

Odds say the same thing. Hitting is 2.18 : 1 against, and the pot lays 2.33 : 1.

One easy error is to use 42.86%, the bet over the pot before your call, as the price. The right price is 30.00%, and the mistaken margin would be -11.4048 points. The bet over the starting pot, 75.00%, would claim -43.5476 points.

How safe the call is

The call does not survive losing even one out. At 8 outs the chance is 31.45%, just enough for 30.00%, and that is the count you hold.

After a hit you could give back up to $11.54 on later streets, 0.15 times your call, before the call stops paying.

Price of a three-quarter-pot call if you give money back after a hit, 8 outs on the flop
Given back laterPrice with itYour chance minus priceValue of the callCall?
$030.00%+1.45 points+$3.63Call
$1031.25%+0.20 points+$0.49Call
$2533.33%-1.88 points-$4.23Fold
$5037.50%-6.05 points-$12.10Fold
$10050.00%-18.55 points-$27.82Fold

Which chance to use

The verdict depends on how many cards you get to see. The runout figure is 31.45% (call), the next-card figure is 17.02% (fold), and the price is 30.00%.

8 outs against a three-quarter-pot bet, one view per row
Cards countedChanceMargin over priceValue of the callVerdict
By the river, two cards31.45%+1.4524 points+$3.63Call
Next card only17.02%-12.9787 points-$32.45Fold

How the answer moves with outs

A few outs either way, against a three-quarter-pot bet that needs 30.00%. The chance climbs about 3.52 points with each extra out.

Outs 6 to 10 on the flop against a three-quarter-pot bet
OutsBy the riverMarginVerdict
6 outs24.14%-5.86 pointsFold
7 outs27.84%-2.16 pointsFold
8 outs, this page31.45%+1.45 pointsCall
9 outs34.97%+4.97 pointsCall
10 outs38.39%+8.39 pointsCall

Bigger and smaller bets

Look down the margin column to see where the draw stops paying. Every row uses 8 outs on the flop and a bet of a different size.

Past 0.85 times the pot ($84.79 on a $100 pot) the price outruns your chance. Of the 12 sizes, 6 are calls for 8 outs on the flop.

8 outs on the flop against every bet size
Bet sizeEquity neededMarginVerdict
quarter-pot16.67%+14.79 pointsCall
third-pot20.00%+11.45 pointsCall
two-fifths-pot22.22%+9.23 pointsCall
half-pot25.00%+6.45 pointsCall
two-thirds-pot28.57%+2.88 pointsCall
three-quarter-pot, this page30.00%+1.45 pointsCall
pot-size33.33%-1.88 pointsFold
1.25x-pot35.71%-4.26 pointsFold
1.5x-pot37.50%-6.05 pointsFold
2x-pot40.00%-8.55 pointsFold
3x-pot42.86%-11.40 pointsFold
4x-pot44.44%-12.99 pointsFold

How this is computed

No sampling is involved. On the flop there are 1,081 pairs of unseen cards, and 741 of them contain no out, which leaves 31.45% for at least one out.

The model is deliberately simple: call everything, win everything on a hit, face no more bets, deal from 47 equally likely unseen cards, and ignore an opponent's holding. With the price at $75 / $250 = 30.00%, later streets and shared outs are what change the real answer.

Computed from the closed form by the GeorgeLiPoker math library.

Updated

Questions

Call or fold with 8 outs on the flop against a bet of three quarters of the pot?

Verdict: call. A three-quarter-pot bet asks for 30.00% and you have 31.45%, a margin of +1.45 points. For a $75 call into a $100 pot, with no later bets and the whole pot won on a hit, the average is +$3.63.

What is the minimum number of outs for a three-quarter-pot bet on the flop?

You need at least 8 outs against a three-quarter-pot bet on the flop. That count hits 31.45% against 30.00% needed, and 7 falls short at 27.84%. With 8 you are exactly at the minimum.

Does it matter whether you count one card or two against a three-quarter-pot bet?

It depends on what follows. If the hand ends here, count both cards: 31.45%. If another bet is coming on the turn, count one card: 17.02%. Compared with 30.00%, that is a call in the first case and a fold in the second.

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